comics I read and felt the need to say things about

[usuallyhats]

A lot of this has come out a bit grumpy. I didn't mean it to but I suppose it's easier to talk about not liking things. Skip to the Batgirl section at the bottom for sheer love!

Young Avengers Presents... I really liked the first volume of Young Avengers, but from then on it's been suffering from the same issue as I have with Teen Titans: on paper, it looks like something I would love, and I like the characters, and I really WANT to love it, but somehow I just don't. There's something not quite there about them and I can't put my finger on what it is. Bah. (These scans really make me interested in reading the new Young Avengers book, though.)

Heroes for Hire: Civil War Positives first: I really love how diverse this team is, and the writing was mostly pretty great. Misty Knight's voice came through very strongly in the opening pages, and I particularly loved the scene where she and Colleen are discussing the Registration Act with Iron Man, Spider-Man and Reed Richards: though they're broadly pro it as the best practical compromise in a bad situation, they're very aware of the potential dangers in a way that the three white men they're talking too aren't. Negatives: THE ART. It was bad in pretty standard ways, sure, all ridiculous postures, boobs akimbo, visible bellybuttons etc, but I find that sort of thing particularly annoying in otherwise woman-friendly books: it implies, basically, that women aren't really the target audience for these books, or even if they are, it's still vital that they appeal to (straight) men. Blergh. To be fair to the artist, he probably didn't design the ridiculous outfits most of the women were stuck with, but still. (I can blame him for the woman in the form fitting, split to the waist prison jumpsuit, though, right?) Of course, since it was written by Gray and Palmiotti, I kept thinking about how I would have liked it more with Amanda Conner's art: she can draw sexy women in ridiculous costumes but make it seem fun and playful, not leery.

Batman RIP ...eh. I think it's time for me to accept that I just don't like Grant Morrison's writing. Actually, it's not really the writing, it's the genre (ETA and the fact that I don't really care about Bruce Wayne at all most of the time probably doesn't help): I don't have much time for the whole "nightmarish landscape, all dialogue is Freighted With Meaning, no sense of humour, everything is Important and all the women are femmes fatales (or victims)" thing. (Beryl Hutchinson was the shining exception to that last, but she was only there for about a page and a half altogether.) The bits I did like (apart from the Beryl panels) were mostly the bits where Dick or Damian turned up and made me laugh. And I was made somewhat grumpy by the potted history of Batman which missed out Steph (SHE WAS A ROBIN) and Cass, and only included one panel of Babs - her getting shot, of course. SIGH. (Also, brief moment of silence please for the recently-retconned origin stories of the first three Robins.) I was fairly interested in Batman Incorporated, because the concept appeals to me, but now I know that Morrison isn't allowed to use Cass or Steph, I probably won't bother with it.

MOVING ON. I reread Batgirl: Kicking Assassins as a palate cleanser and quickly became overcome with feelings. Cass does things to my heart. She's so beautifully serious, but not in an "everything is grim" way, she just takes things seriously. She's careful and thoughtful in everything she does, and especially in everything she says. (There's a lovely panel where she's telling two police officers about something the Penguin's up to, and her thought caption thingy - do they have a proper name? I feel like they must - reads "I practiced saying that". CASS.) And she's consciously trying to learn, all the time: training with Onyx (sidenote: what happened to Onyx? Was it something terrible, or did she just disappear?), thinking about what Batman would do, picking up tips from Alien, watching tapes of other heroes fighting an opponent similar to the one she has to fight. All the bits about her moving into her new neighbourhood are lovely, especially how kind Alfred is with her, and the bit where she goes to her first party and really gets into the dancing. Also, this is the volume where she almost drowns and sees a vision of Steph, who helps her to fight her way to the surface again. HEARTS.

Comments

[everlasting-day.livejournal.com]

I tend to really rate Morrison's Batman run (more for the Batman and Robin half, because the older I get the less I like Bruce Wayne - if I want a brooding, troubled lead I'd rather have Matt Murdoch) because he's actually trying to do something interesting with the character and his history, but I've always felt Jezebel Jet was a real black mark against it. I can see what Morrison's trying to do (she's a parody of Bruce's previous unlikely, Mary Sue-esque love interests with silly names from the 70s/80s), but making the character such an archetype and an obvious villain right from the start feels lazy and makes her totally uninteresting. I guess I enjoy RIP for its visual ambition and ridiculous wealth of ideas, even if it is borderline incoherent and hard work at times.

Morrison's late 80s/early 90s stuff will always be his best work, I think. I highly, highly recommend his Animal Man run, which has a lot of humour and likeable, relatable characters alongside some really mind-bending concepts and is only three trades. I'm tempted to recommend his Doom Patrol, although "nightmarish landscapes" is a pretty big part of that book. But then I think you'd like Crazy Jane and Dorothy and there's lots of great character writing and team stuff in it, so I'm not sure. Worth a look, anyway.

[usuallyhats]

I liked Batman and Robin a lot more, for the Dick and Damian character stuff, though I could take or leave the overarching plot! Totally agree on Jezebel Jet - she comes off as a retreading of the cliché rather than a subversion of it, especially with the lack of other female characters to balance her out.

I actually have the first volume of Animal Man in my to-read pile, so I'm definitely trying that one! The library doesn't have volume one of Doom Patrol - will I be completely lost if I jump in with vol 2?

ETA oh, and thank you for the Nightwing recs! That's another series I've been wanting to get into.

[everlasting-day.livejournal.com]

Batman and Robin was great - who'd have though a fun, interesting central character relationship would suddenly make the whole Morrison Batman saga so much more dynamic and exciting?!

I really hope you enjoy Animal Man, I love it dearly - Morrison's writing back then had a lot more heart than it does now. As for Doom Patrol, I'm honestly not sure, you might be a little bit lost, but probably not completely. Give volume 2 a try, see if the characters grab you!

[usuallyhats]

*g* I know, right!

Cool cool cool, will do!

[ladymercury-10.livejournal.com]

This is pretty much how I feel about Grant Morrison, too. This weird Batman-meets-horror noir-meets-Doctor Who thing he always does is kind of hit-and-miss. And I don't care very much about Bruce Wayne, where are Damian and Dick? And Beryl. Always Beryl. So pretty much I either am like, YES, YOU DID A GOOD THING, or WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU DOING? and quite often, both in the same book. :P

I finally got Cass's first trade from the library, btw! I really want to like Cass because I've heard such good things, but I feel like I didn't get very much of a feel for her yet since a lot of the book was either silent or from Batman's POV. And I didn't like the art very much. But it was only the first book, and it was really short.

Do you read Nightwing? I have been thinking maybe I should look for some Nightwing trades, but I wouldn't know where to start.

[everlasting-day.livejournal.com]

There's not all that much in the way of good Nightwing comics, annoyingly - it seems like a lot of writers really struggle with him for some reason. His best material is usually considered to be Chuck Dixon's run, which kicked off his solo title and is generally really good, engaging superheroics, with a fun supporting cast and the Bludhaven setting giving it a different sort of feel to the Batman books. Dixon's not the greatest writer in the world, but he's reliably solid and really has Dick's voice down (it's probably his best work). It does go downhill a bit when Greg Land takes over from Scott McDaniel on the art, but the Dixon/McDaniel stuff is well worth checking out, although I'm not 100% sure how in print it still is.

[ladymercury-10.livejournal.com]

Hmm, so what would that be, like, Nightwing: Year One? And thanks! :D

[everlasting-day.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, they did that as well!

[ladymercury-10.livejournal.com]

Which other ones were you thinking of?

[everlasting-day.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I mean the Dixon/McDaniel team also did Nightwing: Year One as well as the first 40-odd issues of Nightwing.

[ladymercury-10.livejournal.com]

Do you know if those issues ever got collected as trades? Or would I have to look for them as back issues, on like Comixology or something?

[everlasting-day.livejournal.com]

They were collected, yes! http://tplist.millarworld.net/batmansidekicks.html#nightwing <-- The first four trades are the most essential, I'd say, although I'm not sure how in print they are these days. I can't imagine the back issues would be enormously hard to find if you want to go that route.

[ladymercury-10.livejournal.com]

Ooh, thanks! :D

[everlasting-day.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, another cool thing about the Doom Patrol is that Rachel Pollack, a transwoman, took over after Morrison's run finished and the book dealt with lots of interesting, LGBT-related themes (we also got Coagula, the first trans, lesbian superhero!). Her issues are sadly uncollected, but it's just another reason why that era of comics is my favourite.

[usuallyhats]

Oh, awesome! Thosre are definitely going on my to-read list.

[usuallyhats]

So pretty much I either am like, YES, YOU DID A GOOD THING, or WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU DOING? and quite often, both in the same book. :P

Ha, yes, exactly! And this one was skewed a lot more towards "stop that" than "hurray", alas.

I think Cass gets more ...accessible, I suppose, as a character fairly quickly? I started with "Kicking Assassins", so I already had a bit of a feel for her before I read "Silent Running". I don't think you'd lose much by skipping ahead to that one (or maybe "Fists of Fury", which has the beginning of her friendship with Steph in it), but it probably depends on what your library has and how you feel about reading out of order! I really like the early art, especially on Cass herself, but I've gathered that it's a bit divisive - some people really like it, others not so much.

I haven't read any Nightwing, as the library doesn't have any, but I want to! I'm currently working my way through Gotham Knights and the early Birds of Prey stuff on Comixology, and thinking I'll move on to either Nightwing or Robin next. But I recommend everlasting_day's recommendations!

[ladymercury-10.livejournal.com]

Is Batman: RIP the one with the three ghosts of Batman, or whatever? That keeps popping up seemingly randomly in other Batman books I've read, because apparently Grant Morrison's story arcs have gone on since the dawn of time, much like Batman himself. I'm glad you said that about the Freighted With Meaning thing, because sometimes I will be reading stuff he wrote and my English major symbolism detector will go off, and I will feel like I am losing my mind, because I am reading Batman comics, why should there suddenly be overt symbolism in the dialogue? I mean, I kind of like it, but it is always a little startling because I don't really expect it.

Hmm, I will keep that in mind, then. I think my library has the whole run in its system, but I have to place holds to get them since they are kept at other locations, so I'll see what other things I end up requesting in my next batch, I guess.

What is Gotham Knights? And ooh, Birds of Prey! Do you have any recommendations for good Birds of Prey books to look for? I've heard Of Like Minds and Blood and Circuits both might be good starting points.

[usuallyhats]

I don't think it is, but I'm not 100% sure, which is a little worrying given I've only just read it! /o\

There's a big chunk of issues in the middle of the run that didn't end up in trades, just to warn you! Some of them pop up in Batman crossover stuff, like the Bruce Wayne: Murderer/Fugitive arc, or War Games, but a lot are only available in single issues.

Gotham Knights is a series about the many feelings adventures of the Batfamily from the time when Steph was Spoiler, Jason was still dead and Damian hadn't been invented yet. Oracle, Cass and Steph don't appear as much as I'd like (Steph hasn't appeared at all yet, but I know she does later on), but other than that I'm enjoying it a lot! It's supposed to get more villain focused as it goes along, though, which is disappointing.

"Of Like Minds" is a great place to start. That's the beginning of the Gail Simone era, which is long and really good, and (almost) all in trades. "Blood and Circuits" is also a good starting point: the team had a shake up at that point and set up a new status quo. That's towards the end of the Simone era, though, and it got less good after she left. My favourites are probably "Perfect Pitch", "Sensei and Student" and "Depths of Winter", but they aren't so good as jumping on points. Well, "Perfect Pitch isn't bad - it's the first one I read - the first few issues in it do quite a good job of setting up the characters, but then "One Year Later" happens and everything changes and I got a bit confused! In my experience, the Birds of Prey trades are quite good at starting with little biographies of all the major players, so you at least know the right names to google...

[ladymercury-10.livejournal.com]

a series about the many feelings adventures of the Batfamily
Ahaha that sounds ADORABLE.

That is good to know, then! And that's useful that they give you the Google keywords, as it were, haha. I've only read one BoP anything ever, and it was just a random back issue I got out of the 25 cent bin at the comic store, and it was in the middle of an arc and thus a bit confusing. :P

[usuallyhats]

It IS! :D

*g* yeah, I was a bit dismayed to find out that most comics don't do that...

[everlasting-day.livejournal.com]

Seconding Of Like Minds! Simone's entire run is great, well worth reading from the start.

The Three Ghosts of Batman stuff came before RIP, possibly the volume before it? (it's been awhile!)

[usuallyhats]

The Three Ghosts of Batman stuff came before RIP, possibly the volume before it? (it's been awhile!)
Ah, that's reassuring, I read those back in July!