usuallyhats | "i'm here in an angry capacity"

Current Mood: frustrated
Crossposts: http://shinyjenni.livejournal.com/166658.html

Entry tags:

"i'm here in an angry capacity"

I was all ready to be enthusiastic about the first issue of Li'l Gotham, because it was adorable and featured a) Damian trick or treating and b) a black haired girl wearing what is clearly Steph's Batgirl outfit: even if she wasn't supposed to be Steph (and I can totally buy that Steph would think that it would be HILARIOUS to dress as a Batgirl cosplayer for Halloween), it implies that Steph exists in that world, which is a cause for celebration if you're me. But then I read that the black haired girl was originally blonde - and she was, you can still see the original art in the Buzzfeed preview - and that some people were saying she was blonde when they bought the comic and only became black haired later on, and now I just want to break things. What a petty thing for DC to do.

NB the very first comment on the post where they announced this series was "In before Dan Didio notices Steph's in there and orders the entire series cancelled." HOLLOW LAUGHTER. (I am also impressed at DC's unerring ability to annoy me just as I'm thinking about buying the first Demon Knights collected edition. This is about the third time they've done it. Clearly I will never actually end up getting it.)

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

What is WRONG with them? That is utterly ridiculous. *Sigh* I've mostly just given up on them now and I'm just enjoying the old stuff.

That's what I've been mostly doing too, but I thought I'd try this one because it looked cute and was (possibly) set in the old universe. :/ I can't understand why just having a cameo by someone looking like Steph on one page of an out of continuity comic was SO unacceptable that DC had to change the art after the issue had already been released.

It is just so incredibly weird.

I love your icon!

Thank you! And likewise. :) ♥ Cass! ♥

Steph would think it would be hilarious to dress up as herself for Halloween. Or as a purple version of Barbara. :P

Oh, DC Comics, though...lately he is saying more sane things like they didn't ever plan to bring back *all* the characters at once and if they do bring back Steph and the others it needs to be with more impact (apparently when she came back from being "dead" that was a badly handled plotline? whatever). But I still wish the whole thing would just go away. The only parts of the New 52 I'm tentatively interested in right now are Batman and Robin and Batwoman, both of which existed in a somewhat similar form pre-reboot. Well, and I don't know if Batman: Odyssey is pre- or post- reboot, but that doesn't count, because I only want to read that for crack value. :P

Hee, yes! I can just picture Steph suggesting it, all "EVERYONE! I've had a BRILLIANT idea!" ♥

Yeah, I read that interview too! I'd like to believe that Didio really is racking his brains for the perfect way to bring them all back, but on the other hand... other writers are coming up with ideas to include them and being shot down, by all accounts, and I'm not sure they can all have been terrible ideas. Plus, none of the boy Robins needed to wait for the perfect story to reintroduce them. :(

The only parts of the New 52 I'm tentatively interested in right now are Batman and Robin and Batwoman, both of which existed in a somewhat similar form pre-reboot.
I'm hoping that the library will get those two! And possibly Supergirl. I do want to read Demon Knights, but I think that could probably have existed without the reboot, too. Overall I keep feeling that we've lost more than we've gained with the reboot, and that the DCnU would need serious reworking to be as interesting to me as it was before. (As well as everything else, I'm a bit sad about the new origin stories for the first three Robins...)

Well, and I don't know if Batman: Odyssey is pre- or post- reboot, but that doesn't count, because I only want to read that for crack value. :P
:D Batman: Odyssey is in a magical continuity of its own.

I can just picture Steph suggesting it, all "EVERYONE! I've had a BRILLIANT idea!"

I can also see Damian being extremely unimpressed, and Dick just..not really getting the joke, but trying not to say so outright because Steph was so into it. :P

none of the boy Robins needed to wait for the perfect story
Yeah, it really does seem like there is some kind of weird thing going on at DC. And even if it was like, oh, Barbara should never have stopped being Batgirl, or something like that, well, a) Steph was Spoiler and Robin before she was Batgirl, and b) nobody is wishing away the other three current Robins to get Dick back in the little red vest...yet. Oh goodness. I shouldn't say that too loud, or it'll happen. O_O

Actually I guess that's not entirely true, my dad wishes the other Robins would all go away, but he hasn't read Batman comics since prolly the 70s, and he lives in a fantasy land where Dick Grayson is also Peter Pan and never grows up, and Batman is a happy person, and everything is Adam West and nothing hurts. :P

I'm hoping that the library will get those two! And possibly Supergirl.
I am waiting anxiously for Batwoman to come in--I have it on hold. I reread Elegy, I was so excited for it. I got the 0 issue of Batman and Robin at the comics store, and it was really good, but I haven't read the main arc yet. The guy at the store told me that they hadn't completely rebooted away things like Dick raising Damian while Bruce was dead/stuck in time/Grant Morrisoned away/whatever the heck happened to him but the current series was focusing on Bruce and Damian, so idk what exactly is the status quo. What exactly did they do to the origin stories for the Robins? I have heard about it only vaguely.

Batman: Odyssey is in a magical continuity of its own.
Loool, it would have to be, right? :P

Damian would be hilariously unimpressed. ♥ I can see Dick getting the joke and being really into it, though possibly I am influenced more by fanon than canon there!

a) Steph was Spoiler and Robin before she was Batgirl
Yes! And Cass could easily go straight to being Black Bat, with her origin story basically intact. They're only missing because someone doesn't want them there.

b) nobody is wishing away the other three current Robins to get Dick back in the little red vest...yet.
At least if they'd done that, it would've been consistent retconning. :(

What exactly did they do to the origin stories for the Robins?
I haven't been reading... well, anything, but this is what I've picked up (mostly from

scans_daily):

Dick was about fifteen when his parents were killed - that bit's more or less the same, apart from the age thing, but instead of taking him in, Bruce ships him off to the Wayne Centre For Stray Plotpoints. He sneaks out to fight crime on his own (and manages to work out who Batman is, because he's so great at reading body language... possibly they've confused him with Cass?), and eventually Bruce offers him training and a job running the Batcave's systems.

Jason's origin was manipulated by the Joker, who arranged for his father to get sent to prison, faked his mother's death and dumped him on Leslie Thompkins' doorstep. The "stealing the tyres from the Batmobile" bit is gone (woe); instead, Jason steals drugs from Leslie's clinic to sell. Batman catches him, and I think Leslie persuades him to to take Jason on as the new Robin.

Tim's story is almost entirely different: he doesn't work out who Batman is, for a start. (He thinks he's almost there at one point, but it turns out that Bruce planted all the clues he's been following, as a test.) He's an Olympic level athlete and a computer hacker who gets himself into trouble when he steals the Penguin's fortune to give to charity - his parents have to go into the witness protection programme and he adopts "Drake" as his new surname, I think that this is when Bruce takes him in and offers him the role of Robin. (He actually calls himself Red Robin straight away, but I'm not really sure if there's any other difference than the name.) Also, there's this really creepy bit where Alfred takes Bruce to see Tim's gymnastic performance and points him out as a potential new Robin, which doesn't seem very Alfred-y. "Look, there's a teenage boy who could be your new sidekick, you know, to replace the one who got horribly murdered! :D?")

I don't hate the new origin stories in themselves, but I'd much rather they'd been given to new/AU characters, rather than twisting the existing ones. :( As far as I can tell, most of Batman's preboot stuff still happened, it's just jammed into a five year timespan...

Loool, it would have to be, right? :P
Thinking about it, it may span SEVERAL continuities of its own! :D

I can see Dick getting the joke and being really into it, though possibly I am influenced more by fanon than canon there!
Ha, well, he did grow up in the circus, so maybe he would think it was funny. :P I bet Alfred would be amused by the whole thing. And probably have to hide so that Damian wouldn't realize anyone thought he was funny and go looking for knives, haha.

At least if they'd done that, it would've been consistent retconning.
That's a fair point, because it is a bit weird for Dick to be old enough to be running around as Nightwing by himself and Barbara to still be comfortable calling herself Batgirl. Although I think there was some length of time pre-reboot when that was true? Because I have Nightwing: Year One from the library (although I've not actually read it) and it appears to have Barbara in her Batgirl suit on the cover as well.

there's this really creepy bit where Alfred takes Bruce to see Tim's gymnastic performance and points him out as a potential new Robin
That does sound really creepy, and kind of not like Alfred.

I guess I only knew broad-strokes versions of the Robins' origin stories anyway, but that's kind of weird that they felt like they needed to change them. Especially things like Bruce not taking Dick in--that's kind of a big thing. The 0 issue of Batman and Robin was, I think, supposed to serve a similar purpose to Batman and Son, and so Damian comes to Bruce in a very similar way (and with some panels that must be intentional artistic nods, even), but I don't know how much is the same after that. It's just that it has that at the very end of the issue, and most of it is about Damian's relationship with Talia, and how she sort of teases and withholds who his father is from him while she trains him. It's pretty interesting, and although it never really got into this, it did made me think about how Talia is probably a horrible person for the same reason that Damian is (and I say that with a great deal of affection for Damian :P )--she was probably raised very similarly, and subject to the same kind of pressure and conditioning. As opposed to just being a crazy evil genius, which she sometimes seems.

it's just jammed into a five year timespan
Wait, three Robins in five years? And a Batgirl, too? And she gets shot, and then right after all this, Damian shows up on his doorstep? Why would they do all that so fast? Why wouldn't they give themselves a bigger pre-boot time window? O_O

Thinking about it, it may span SEVERAL continuities of its own!
From what I've heard, it could exist outside of space and time and still not make sense. :P

Ha, well, he did grow up in the circus, so maybe he would think it was funny.
*g* I imagine Dick as really enjoying terrible jokes. Possibly as a a defence mechanism, given his name. :D And yes, Alfred would find it all very entertaining. ♥

I think there was a bit of crossover between Babsgirl and Nightwing originally - I remember reading somewhere (probably on tumblr!) that she was never Batgirl when he had the black and blue fingerstripes outfit, but was when he had his discowing costume. I know that she was a fair bit older than him pre-new 52, too. I think she was pretty grown-up when she started calling herself Batgirl: not sure how old exactly, though!

Especially things like Bruce not taking Dick in--that's kind of a big thing.
Yeah, it would change their relationship significantly, I'd think. I'm assuming (and hoping!) he does adopt him later on, based on one of the earlier issues either implying or explicitly identifying him as Bruce's son, but then earlier issues also said Tim had been Robin, so who knows.

but I don't know how much is the same after that
I was under the impression that Damian's backstory was pretty much the same, hurray!

it did made me think about how Talia is probably a horrible person for the same reason that Damian is (and I say that with a great deal of affection for Damian :P )--she was probably raised very similarly, and subject to the same kind of pressure and conditioning. As opposed to just being a crazy evil genius, which she sometimes seems.
Ooh, that's a good point. (I have an idea that I may have read something about Talia's childhood somewhere before, but I can't remember where it was or what it said /o\) Her characterisation seems pretty inconsistent, from what I've read, but I really like that idea!

Wait, three Robins in five years?
Yep, three and a half if you count Tim! Plus Dick being Batman for a bit is definitely still canon. And Barbara had a few years between getting shot and being Batgirl again, I think. It's ridiculously tight. I'd got the impression that they were giving Batman a bit longer than the five years everyone else got (for some reason they've done away with the idea that there were any superheroes before that, on Earth One at any rate), but I think Batman #0 tied it down to five or possibly six. :(

she was never Batgirl when he had the black and blue fingerstripes outfit, but was when he had his discowing costume. I know that she was a fair bit older than him pre-new 52, too. I think she was pretty grown-up when she started calling herself Batgirl
Ah, okay, that makes more sense then. And yeah, the book I have from the library is one where he is wearing a slightly baffling costume that would not be out of place at a disco party. :P

I am glad Dick being Batman is still canon and Damian's origin story is mostly the same. I was v. worried that they were going to un-canon all that, poor Damian and all his family issues. But still, that's a crazy amount of stuff to go down in five years.

Oh, and the library finally sent me the New 52 Batwoman! The art was really fabulous, but since Greg Rucka isn't writing it anymore, the story was kind of...less good. Bits of it were kind of cliche or melodramatic, I think. It was still good, but not great, but I hear it gets better in the next arc.

It is a truly resplendent costume. ;D

Me too! I'm annoyed at the double standard, but I'm also glad that if we are stuck with this half changed universe, at least some good things survived.

Oh, that's a shame. I'm looking forward to reading it (my library's copies haven't arrived yet), but I'm also slightly worried about what I've heard about Flamebird... At least the art's still good!

Oh dear goodness, who let Dick pick out his own clothes? :P

Yeah, I am not familiar with Flamebird, but I was a little bit hmm about the way she was written. The book did still have some really nice bits, though.

I bet he was so pleased with it, no one had the heart to tell him he looked ridiculous. ♥ (Ahaha, Amy and Rory's reactions are perfect!)

I only know her from a brief appearance in Teen Titans, but I really liked her, and was rather annoyed that she wasn't really taken seriously because she got into crimefighting because she had a crush on Dick, so I was excited to see her in Batwoman. :(

I want there to be a comic book in which Damian finds a picture of Dick wearing this and is completely insufferable for the entire issue. Because he would never let him live an outfit like that down. :P

There wasn't anything about that specifically in Batwoman, but Bette was not super on top of things, either. Which admittedly might be some kind of winking continuity reference to way back when, because the very first Batgirl had her same name and was Batwoman's sidekick and was a bit incompetent.

ME TOO. (Damian did meet Discowing!Dick once - there's a preview here - but it was in an out of continuity issue and I haven't got my hands on it yet, so I don't know if it was as great as it promised to be!)

Oh, that's a shame. :( I just want Bette to have a chance to shine!

Ahhh is that all the Robins together? And even Carrie? So cool! Although...why is Batman...so...small all of a sudden? He looks like he's only a little taller than Jason. But maybe it's just the angle. :P

All the Robins! Even the girl ones! ♥ (See also Tiny Titans, which is another thing I really need to get a copy of at some point...)

I hadn't noticed that, but you're right, he is! I suppose when the Phantom Stranger's carrying him it would've looked silly if he was the right size. But otherwise, whoops! :D

Edited 2012-11-11 19:24 (UTC)

LOL, yet another identity crisis for dear Steph. Bless.

I like how sympathetic Dick seems to be to her dilemma... :)

Haha, he would have to be. Until she remembers her Black Mercy dream and tries to steal his job. :P

Someone on Tumblr (I think it was nightwingzz, I forget how many z's she has in her name) was saying that Steph is basically working her way up the ladder to being Batman someday, which, YES. Except she may be too well-adjusted to be Batman. :P

Ahaha, yes! Though I like to think that he'd've been OK with her being the new Nightwing (assuming he wasn't Nightwing at the time...) once he got to know her. They could've bonded over teaching Damian to quip. ;)

Except she may be too well-adjusted to be Batman. :P
Hee, very probably! And I'm not sure she could take Batmanning very seriously... :D She'll have to be the Nightwing to Cass's Batman instead. ♥

If anyone was going to take his job, Steph would be the one for it. And oh my goodness, yes, poor Damian would be surrounded by terrible jokes on both sides and would have no defense! I guess he would have no choice but to make friends with Barbara, since she is so good at polite sulking/extreme sarcasm. :P

Haha, yes, that would be perfect! Which, I did finally read Cass' second trade last night when I was meant to be studying for my computer science midterm (heh....) and I am starting to like it more because Cass is indeed great. And the bit when she gets her own cave! It was pretty much just like in Beauty and the Beast when Belle gets her own library. ALL THE FEELS.

Ahaha, I'd never thought about how Damian and Barbara would get on, but now I am imagining them sitting there with matching grumpyfaces as Dick and Steph exchange increasingly awful puns, and it is making me so happy. ♥

Yay! Really glad it's growing on you. (Good luck with the midterm!) OH CASS. "ALL THE FEELS" is pretty much how I feel every time she shows up. (There's a similar moment coming up in "Kicking Assassins", which I also love a lot.)

Ahhhh that is the most adorable thing to imagine! I feel like I have to store that in my brain for the next time I need to cheer myself up. :D

(Bruce would be so, so disappointed if he ever found out that that was how they had all been running Gotham in his absence. Which just goes to show that Bruce needs a vacation that does not involve getting dead through all of time and space. :P )

Thank you for the good luck wishes! And yay for more Cass feels. Although I think I would still have to read a lot more before I get to that one?

The real reason why Bruce went off to set up Batman Incorporated: he was mortified by his sidekicks' antics and had to go and hide somewhere. ;D

A fair bit, yeah... I read it all out of order so I forget quite how much there is before Kicking Assassins! I'm still working my way through it myself.

Hahaha he totally would do something like that just out of crankiness though. :P

Have you read Batman & Robin: Dark Knight vs. White Knight? I thought there were only three trades with Dick and Damian, but I found it at the library the other day and Dick is indeed subjecting Damian to his bad sense of humor, which is amusing. Damian says he is the "worryingly jolly Batman." Also amusing is Damian attempting to make quips that are equally horrible, but more in a "ten-year-old with a sadistic sense of humor" sort of way. :P

I haven't read it, no, but you've made me really want to! My library has a copy on order, but it looks like it's the paperback and therefore not out til February. Boo!

It's not by Grant Morrison, so it's a little different than the others. I thought at first it was a little uneven and having some slightly weird lady issues, but it got a lot better as it went on. (It may have resolved the issues, but they were mostly in the first arc which had a confusing plot so I couldn't tell for sure.) It had lots of funny bits, and sort of "family bonding" or character observation moments. :)

That's sad that your library is waiting until February. :/

It looks like it's got lots of different authors, so I'm not surprised it's a bit uneven! Luckily I'll put up with a lot for jokes and Batfamily stuff... :D

I'm torn between paperback = cheaper = more money for other stuff! and "but I want it NOW". ;D

I didn't think it was too much to put up with for Batfamily-ing. :D

Hurray! :D

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

"i'm here in an angry capacity"

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject